You’re so polite that it’s rude - Three different ways to be misunderstood in Korean
Tuesday, March 31st, 2009Politeness levels. 반말, 존댓말, 높임말.
Essentially, this is the socially appropriate form of language that is used depending on the situation. Think “Please” and “Thank you” times a million.
But if you think about it, we have this concept in English - just not as heightened. I feel that Spanish has a little more in common with Korean politeness levels. For that matter, dozens of other languages have this concept, right? Either way, it’s not an easy concept to transfer. In all honesty, this was probably the most difficult transition for me when first actually speaking Korean.
But like all things, I like to make a game out of it. Let’s pick one of my favorite genres, the RTS. In Company of Heroes, if you want to decimate a wondering group of Nazi soldiers, you deploy a marksman from the Allied barracks and place him in a tall building like a church or bell tower. National socialism problem solved. It’s basically a complex game of Rock-Paper-Scissors. All situations have a an easy way to achieve victory and conversely, all units have a weakness. To win, you must choose carefully which units you deploy and to which enemy units to attack.
Video game violence aside, this concept is just like conversing in Korean. One must quickly size up the enemy and deploy the appropriate weapon politeness level. A rule of thumb is age but like all things Korean, things aren’t what they seem on the surface. Suppose a young Korean male signs up for the mandatory military service and has to serve under a higher ranking soldier who is a year younger than him. Go ahead and guess who gets to use 반말.
It is also completely possible to be too polite. If you’re trying to get closer to a friend that is close to your age, chances are that asking to use 반말 will make the two of you feel more comfortable. Then again, if a super-close friendship isn’t something that you really want, using 존댓말 is a subtle yet friendly way of maintaining your personal bubble.
Honorific speech is something that should be used whenever in doubt when meeting someone older. The whole asking for forgiveness is better than asking permission does not apply here - one can always eventually lower their speech level with minimal social faux pas; but being asked to raise your speech level is fairly embarrassing. I should know. I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to the entire city of 부산. Moving on.
I joke but I really feel polite speech is most important in Korea. It goes beyond changing the verb ending and a few vocabulary words here and there - it represents a profound sense of mutual social understanding and harmony. When things work the way the should, the social machine runs well-oiled and properly. Those seeking to make friends and do business are especially challenged when deciding what to use in each situation.
I’ve heard of many Korean language students that struggle with the informal-speech constantly being set in the “ON” position. I have the opposite problem. I seem to always have the standard switch on. I naturally want to speak 존댓말 with everyone - including kids and close friends. I struggle to remember “…oh yeah, duh. I forgot. He’s my roommate. I don’t have to use 요 with him…” or “…opps… this kid is like 13 years old. why am I using 요 with him?…”
Anyone have any amusing stories of misusing politeness levels? Do tell.
Thoughts?
Posted by Matthew in How Koreans Do It |
March 31st, 2009 at 11:08 am
I worked at a private English academy last year, and I never heard the Korean teachers ever use 존댓말 towards any of the students (from elementary to middle school). This year I’m in a Korean elementary public school, and it’s standard for the Korean teacher to speak to the class in 존댓말 (occasionally they lapse into 반말, but generally they end verbs in 세요 and 읍시다). At the 학원, they always addressed the kids with “얘들아,” but here it’s frequently “여러분.” Even in one-on-one situations, my co-teachers freqently change between 존댓말 and 반말 with the students.
I asked my co-teacher about it, and she said it has to do with giving children dignity, and how it’s something she wants to do. Many public school teachers try to do the same, apparently. So it seems to be more complicated than just age…
Also, even if you’re in your 20’s,and some obnoxious 14-year-old middle school students are blocking your path, I’ve been told by a Korean that it’s better to say “비켜 주세요~~” rather than a brusque “비켜!” to get them to move. It’s all so complicated… :S
March 31st, 2009 at 11:14 am
Also, as learners of the Korean language, we’re told to size up your conversation partner, pick one politeness level, and stick with it. But in real life, it seems that Koreans tend to mix politeness levels, without permission, when having a conversation with someone (or at least someone younger than them). Taxi driver 아저씨’s are notorious for this: they’ll say “어, 한국말 잘 하시네요!” and “어느 나라 사람이세요?”, but then later during the trip, they’ll say “무슨 일해?” and “한식 좋아해?”. They’ll then end the ride with a polite “안녕히 가세요.” Hmm…
March 31st, 2009 at 12:10 pm
It’s a good point for sure. I wonder if some of the phrases in 존댓말 are fixed in that it’s simply customary to respond in that way (e.g. 잘 하시네요) even if you are less senior than the speaker. Then again, I notice some of my friends speaking with a mixture - like 80% 존댓말 20% 반말 or something like that - depending on the person and the people involved in the conversation.
The 학원 v. 공립 학교 thing is totally news to me and is fascinating. It makes total sense, of course but for some reason I would have guessed the opposite. Great insight Daniel!
March 31st, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Outside of school life, age has very little to do with Korean honorifics, but I won’t write a thesis. The point I wanted to make is that English has an honorific system.. it’s just not as distinct. There are so many different combinations of words we can use in English to express honorifics–it’s just a little more loose and less literally defined than Korean.
Just as in Korean, being sarcastically polite can have a very rude effect and works very well. For example, making fun of someone in Korean using 존댓말 can have a greater effect than using 반말 because it can show that the person you’re making fun of *should* be above you.. and whatever you’re making fun of him/her for is something that such a respected person should be ashamed of. It’s also important to note that forms like ~습니다 do not have to be considered “polite.”
March 31st, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Technically in English you’re always being polite when you’re using “you.” Though no one really knows that nowadays.
I think there always are politeness levels in a language, no matter how much they seem not to. Like Chris1 pointed out using a higher politeness level can have a mocking effect. For intance in Norwegian, the polite pronouns have fallen out of use so you only really use them as jokes. Well, except when the state tells you that you owe them money. Then they use the polite pronouns. That doesn’t exactly make me like them. hehe
My auto in Korean is set to 존댓말… hehe
March 31st, 2009 at 11:08 pm
“Technically in English you’re always being polite when you’re using “you.” Though no one really knows that nowadays. ”
???????
Can you provide some sort of example?
April 1st, 2009 at 4:21 am
I think English doesn’t distinguish between “register” (which describes the formality of the speaking situation) and “honorification” (which accords the appropriate amount of respect to particular people - when social protocol encourages/requires it). It’s true that historically English had the you vs. thou distinction, but because “thou” is only found in the King James bible, Shakespearean works, and the like, many people now have the impression that “thou” is the more polite/formal form (when it’s actually the other way around).
Thus, 요 is a marker of polite/formal register, but -시 and verbs like 계시다, 드리다, 여쭈다, 잡수시다, 주무시다, and similar items are “honorifics”. And you can use honorifics without the 요 if you’re merely describing the actions of a person who should be attributed with honorifics (but who’s not within the immediate speaking situation) to a person with whom you would usually use 반말.
Incidentally, I work with Balinese, a language which has (at least) 3 basic speech levels, and where the differences between these levels is not only with suffixes or a restricted set of verbs/nouns, but is found everywhere in the lexicon (i.e. vocabulary). Body parts, actions, culturally important items, and the like have either a 2-way or 3-way distinction. For example, the word for ‘water’ has three forms: low is ‘yeh’, middle is ‘toya’, and high is ‘tirta’. And the latter is the only one used when one describes holy water.
April 1st, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Nice caption. I can totally picture myself now using a slight variation, “I’m so about to go banmal on your a**!” The fact that you included a link to a “personal space” Wikipedia entry, or that you take it upon yourself to apologize to the entire city of Busan, is almost as amusing.
April 1st, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Wow, interesting points, everybody! Yes, it is very complicated. Today I tried to explain to some of my Korean coworkers the difference between greetings of “Hi!,” “Hello!,” and “Good morning!” Now, “Good morning” is definitely the most formal, but just because I say “Hi!” to my co-workers and students alike, doesn’t mean I’m using the English equivalent of 반말 with my co-workers. Yet, when addressing my boss or a large group of people, I’d never start with “Hi!” or even “Hello,” but rather “Good morning/afternoon/evening.” Hmm…
And yes, Matthew, I agree that some phrases in Korean seem to have a fixed politeness level attached to them. But, I’ve heard some older Korean people use variations: “잘 가요” instead of “안녕히 가세요,” “고맙소” instead of “고맙습니다” (or even “고마워요”), and I have occasionally gotten “한국말 잘 해요.” I’m not sure if I’m reading too much into simple one-liners people (always older than me) toss off… but it is interesting and makes one go “Hmm…”
April 2nd, 2009 at 9:16 am
I had a weird experience with polite language in Sydney.
I was speaking Japanese with another Australian, and using casual language, when my girlfriend said that I should probably be speaking polite language because we didn’t know each other very well.
But then I explained to her that in Australia we’re all very laid back, and polite forms aren’t used very much at all, even with strangers.
So what does one do in that situation? I can tell you that if a group of korean high school kids were blocking my way in Sydney (which isn’t out of the question considering how many Koreans are studying there!) I probably wouldn’t be so polite!
April 2nd, 2009 at 9:23 pm
My “default”/auto is on 존댓말 ^^’… except for “no”, it’s just infinitely difficult for me to remember to say “anniYO” instead of just “anni”. Probably b/c “yes” doesn’t take a “yo” and because whenever I have to say “no” it’s normally so much out of a situation and automatic that I don’t think about it much.
) and other Korean relatives eventhough they wouldn’t expect it from me. (On a sidenote: I speak little Korean w/ my mom… normally we speak in German. So I guess it’s like a “game” when we do and it’s “fun” to use polite language)
I mostly talk to ppl I don’t know and/or are older than me. I even talk 존댓말 to my mom (how traditional
One of my cousins also likes to switch levels with me. She normally talks 반말 to me (she’s younger) but whenever she feels bad (for being late
) she uses 존댓말 ;).
So what should I do if a 14 y/o that I don’t know asks me sth. in the street? Using either level would feel weird for SOME reason…….
April 8th, 2009 at 12:59 am
Matt,
Nice blog and site - enjoyed reading your thoughts about and experiences in Korea…..
Robert Neff
April 8th, 2009 at 7:34 am
Thanks everyone!!
April 14th, 2009 at 5:29 am
I’m pretty much on 존댓말 auto-pilot. It’s rather bad, because when I talk to my boyfriend (who is korean) I try to talk to him in 반말, but occasionally I’ll add 요 at the end of things (I cannot for the life of me say 안 돼, it’s always 안 돼요). On rare occassion I’ll accidentally say 합니다 or 습니다 at the end of something because that was the way I originally learned how to say whatever I was saying, and in the flow of conversation my brain didn’t catch it. Of course, he thinks it’s funny.
May 15th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
I have never been in the situation to pick between formal or informal korean language because the only person I ever talk to in korean, with the few things I know in korean, was my boyfriend who taught me them in informal language. I will say though in spanish, or moreso where I grew up, formal language is big. I can’t imagine not saying usted, mande, tia or tio, which I use to talk to friends of the family who are older than me to be polite, etc.. I don’t think I can call anyone by just their name if they’re old, not necesarrily just older than me more like significant different. Looking at it this way i can see why korean people use formal language.