다시 말해봐…
Friday, July 25th, 2008All of my students know that I am leaving during summer vacation, and that next semester there will be a new English teacher. And although theorhetically, they have all been told I’m not leaving until the end of August, NOT all of them really grasped that part.
This week I am in the middle of a 10-day English day camp for 4th and 5th graders. There are all sorts of programs going on at school, so kids are in and out all day long. If you are a Korean student, there really is no such thing as summer vacation. One of my students told me that he wasn’t looking forward to it because even though he wouldn’t have to go to school, his mother would make him attend 학원 all day long now.
Anyway, one little girl in 1st grade saw me at school the other day. And she screamed across the room:
“아직 안 갔지!?”
You haven’t left yet?
Adept readers will notice that that sentene is about as deep in 반말 as it could be. Most of the time, my students speak with apporiate politeness when they use Korean. If they use 반말 it is never to be intentionally disrespectful, but instead because of 4 reasons. 1) They are just joking, 2) They don’t really see me as a “선생님” (probably because I am just the silly English Teacher) and they are trying to build a more friendly relationship. 3) They are still learning how to use Korean correctly. 4) They think they can get away with it.
Anyway, I usually don’t let them get away with it. And since what she said was about as rude as it could be, I was NOT going to let this little girl slide. So after she screamed “아직 안 갔지” she ran over towards me to presumably hug me or continue this conversation. She hit a brick wall:
Austin: “너 이리 와…다시 말해봐” (Get over here…try to say that again)
(that is my standard phrase to make a kid use 존댓말. The nuance is that the kid said something wrong and should fix it.)
Bratty girl: “니가 안 갔어?” (You didn’t go?)
Austin: “뭐래? 다시 말 해봐..디시!” (What did you say? Say it again…again!)
Bratty girl: “언제 가?” (When are you going?)
Austin: “그 건 뭐야? 어? 안 갔어 뭐야? 아직 안 갔지 뭐야? 내가 선생님이라서 니가 그렇게 말했냐?” (What is that? Huh? You didn’t go? You haven’t left yet? I am a teacher, and you speak to me like that?!”
Bratty girl just looks at me with this really confused and bewildered expression.
Austin: “다시 말 해봐…이렇게…선생님 언제 가세요?” (Try again, like this: Teacher, when are you leaving?)
Bratty girl (in a very small, timid voice): “선..생..님…언제…가…세…요…?
Austin: “오! 언제 가냐고? 8월 21일에 갈 거야! 그래 아직 안 갔어” (Oh! When am I leaving? I’m leaving August 21. You’re right I haven’t left yet.)
It is difficult to express the difference between sentences like:
아직 안 갔지? and 언제 가
with
아직 안 가셨어요? and 언제 가세요?
While there are (dis)repsectful ways of seaking in English, it does not map to the speech levels in Korean. Suffuce it to say that his girl was being really “impolite.” I use quotes because I’m about 80% sure this particular student has some sort of learning disability which might offer some explanation as to why I had such difficulty getting her to correct her mistake. Still, I think there is little excuse for it and if she is having similar problems when adressing older Koreans, she MUST learn to speak properly.
Now, I want to go back to the fouth reason I suspect kids might use 반말 with me; they think they can get away with it. This comes courtesy of 현우. I was talking with him a week or so ago, and shared some stories of students using 반말 towards me. His theory is that kids see it as an “escape” from the very rigid rules of their linguistic culture. 99% of students wouldn’t even DREAM of speaking to their Korean teacher like that. The concept doesn’t even register. But because I am a foreigner, I fall outside of the rigid social mores. Surely the consequences for using 반말 or trying to give me a 똥침 are going to be much less severe than the extremely unlikely scenario of either of those happening to a Korean teacher.
Now, I can see perhaps two ways to react. First, I sort of like the idea of allowing kids some chance to get a “release” from the “stress” and “constraints” of their culture. It’s part of the reason I try very hard to make my English classes purely enjoyable and am happy even if they didn’t learn a whole lot, so long as they enjoyed the process.
However, I believe in reinforcing the rules and expectation that Korean culture places on them. They should not get in the habit of using 반말 with adults. I don’t want to guilty of contributing to their confusion.
What would you do?
Posted by 오민 (Austin) in Learning Korean |
July 25th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
I think what you’re doing is appropriate, especially since these children are going to have to learn that they are expected to follow societal norms (including being able to have full command of speech levels) - and that most adults are not going to give them many concessions along the way.
As someone who learned Balinese (another language that has speech levels, but in the vocabulary rather than verb inflection) as an adult, I first stayed with a low-caste family where I could use Low Balinese for 95% of the time - and where opportunities for me to learn Middle/High Balinese, which are essential for meeting strangers and higher caste people, were almost non-existent, but then stayed with a higher-caste family during subsequent trips. And that was an eye-opener for me - I was expected to speak at least Middle Balinese to my host parents, but I could get away with Low Balinese most of the time with their children (who are a little younger than I am). And every time I would slip into Low Balinese with my host parents, they would just say (sometimes shout) the appropriate equivalent form in Middle Balinese and made me repeat it. Needless to say, my grasp of Balinese speech styles got much better…
July 25th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
I am so thrilled…this is the first time I have been able to understand all of the Korean subject matter in your posts! And without you explaining it directly, I can “feel” the level of politeness (or lack thereof) of what the girl said to you.
I think you are right to do as you do. I have the impression that once you drop politeness, it’s a slippery slope all the way down to “hey, you, knock it off will ya?” So don’t change your approach.
I admire your sticking to formalities, because it takes confidence. As a non-native Korean speaker, I’d be inclined to just accept however people talk to me, without feeling that I’m deserving of a higher level by anyone. It’s like this “club” exists, and until I attain a certain level of Korean proficiency, I assume I can’t be a member. So I mistakenly feel it’s ok to be spoken to in 반말, by anyone, child or no. So thank you for showing me otherwise.
That gives me an idea, and perhaps I should post it in the forums…could you suggest some ways we could tactfully correct a politeness-level slip like that? I.e., requesting that we be spoken to like they would speak to any Korean of the same social rank. It could be that we are addressing an adult, which takes caution more so than with children.
July 26th, 2008 at 5:05 am
i have had the same problem on a smaller scale with the little boy i tutor. in his case, for the most part, i think he’s just still learning how to speak properly to adults (he just turned 5). i also think this is the first time he’s ever spoken to a foriegner in korean, so he may be confused about what is expected. but if your kids certainly know how to talk, and know what is expected, then i think you are doing the right thing. you make a good point, even if you yourself don’t mind the way they are speaking, you don’t want them to think it’s o.k. to speak to adults or foriegners that way.
i have had a similar situation but sort of the oppositte - i think we’ve discussed this before, but perhaps you have had a similar situation… i have actually been *scolded* by other people for using 반말 with friends (even though we have mutually decided to use 반말) just because i’m a foriegner. i haven’t had this come up often (there are few people that i speak 반말 with - even my *best* korean friend and i speak 존대말 because she wants me to be able to practice speaking properly, though she doesn’t mind if i make a joke in 반말) but it kind of threw me off guard. i think 반말 is awesome!
but i’m coming to the point now where my korean is to the level that i can’t afford a mistake in the way i speak to someone. i really need to work on higher respect levels other than just polite speech!
sorry this is long, and sort of off topic, but i thought it fit.. sort of…. ^^
July 26th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
I’ve always been curious how Korean children learn about the difference between 반말 and 존댓말, as well as how and when to use honourific equivalents of nouns and verbs. I’m sure some of it’s taught in school, but I get the sense that a lot of it comes from family and more “informal” lessons.
July 26th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Bouks…
That’s great news! I’m glad you were able to understand this post!
Ed..
You might already know this, but Korean also has different vocabulary for some things. Most of the speech level modulation is done with verb inflections, but there are a few (that I know of) words that must change too.
Just two examples:
To say good night, you can say “잘 자” But you can’t say “잘 자세요” (or if you can, it sounds weird) Everything changes and you get something like ” 안녕히 자무세요”
Birthday is 생일but when talking about your granny’s birthday, it’s called 생신
Daniel:
I’m pretty sure that kids are taught that sort of thing at home as their parents correct their mistakes. There is a wealth of research in linguistics about how parents “teach” their native language to their children. In English it’s mostly grammar and other usage errors. For Korean, speech levels is just one more category kids learn about from a young age.
Check out his blog post, for a smidgen of insight
http://learnkorean.blogsome.com/2007/06/02/p67/
July 27th, 2008 at 4:08 am
Austin:
Yes, I’m aware of those differences in vocab in Korean, but it’s quite restricted, right?
먹다 ~ 잡수시다
자다 ~ 주무시다
말 ~ 말씀
몯다 ~ 여쭈다
집 ~ 택
이름이 뭐이에요 ~ 성함이 어떻게 되세요?
나이가 몇 살이에요 ~ 연세가 어떻게 되세요?
에/에게 ~ 께
에서 ~ 께서
_ ~ 께서(는)
And so on…
I guess I meant to say that the Korean speech styles are primarily differentiated through verbal morphology (with some special vocabulary items).
But in my experience, it gets more complicated when you work with a language where speech styles are primarily based on vocabulary differences, e.g Balinese, since vocabulary retrieval is more cognitively costly than retrieving smaller morphemes.
This language has, for example, three different ways of saying “Will you take a bath?” which are dependent on which speech style the speaker is using:
Cai kal mandus? (Low - to intimates and fellow caste members)
Jerone jagi masiram? (Middle - to strangers and those of higher caste)
Iratu jagi masucian? (High - to high priests or royals)
(Every sentence can be glossed [2ND.Person FUTURE bathe])
July 27th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
How do you say “shut up” in Balinese?
July 28th, 2008 at 12:40 am
>_:
How lovely - you’re not even brave enough to put your name.
I’m not going to dignify that with the most appropriate response. Instead, I’ll just simply ask: 니가 다시 말할 볼래?
August 5th, 2008 at 1:12 am
Wow! I really love this post. I could emulate your tone/intonation on the first read and cudos for your putting your foot down. I would have done the exact thing had I the ability to speak Korean with the fluidez that you do.
I just started Koreanclass101 and it rocks. You all keep everything very simple and the explanations are wonderfully insightful into the culture behind the language. You’re absolutely right about how English doesn’t really map the emotion or implied meaning.
Had that been a more clever student they could have filibustered themselves out of it and maybe left the reprimand feeling not reprimanded at all but only that their own debasement skills needed to be honed.
Not saying that I’ve had a situation like that happen (I’ve never let a student/child slide with a rude comment) only I’ve gotten into some conversations with children (in inner city L.A.) about freedom and personal right and when they felt their “civil liberties” had been trampled on. Yep! Civil liberties.
This was because another student used the most vile racial slur in the English (US) language on him, and he punched the offender.
Again, great post.
August 9th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
as always Austin, great post! I really dig the line by lines.
As for me, if I had the command of the language, I would do the exact same thing. Actually, in Texas, it was common when I was in elementary and middle school to hear the same type of conversation go on. I say it occurred in Texas because I’m pretty sure that the rest of America (well, at least not in the South) did the practice as much. Lack of respectful speech for elders was enough to get on campus suspension. Trust me