Okay so I’ll pick you up at 8:00…maybe (Korean punctuality)
Thursday, June 12th, 2008Time.
Koreans can be terrible about it. I have been stood up more times than I’m happy to admit, but not by dates, but by Koreans. Oh sure, times are changing… but historically, Koreans haven’t faired well with keeping appointments on time.
It’s not their fault. Maybe it’s my fault for being punctual. Maybe I make too big a deal of this. I mean, all other Americans think similarly (only we aren’t as homogeneous as Koreans and thus, many Americans are remorselessly late too). Maybe I never really questioned it until now?
Those of you familiar with Mexican culture will know that MexicoTime is about +1 hour past the time agreed upon. By comparison, KoreaTime is usually +15 minutes past the time stated. Not bad. But there must be a reason, right? It’s not just to make my blood pressure rise, is it?
For many Hispanics, the time that was agreed upon is flexible because people come first, not time. So, if a someone needed a quick favor or a chore needed to be done before heading off to the appointment, most likely the person will be late because these other things come first. It’s quite charming when you look at it that way. He’s not lazy, he’s considerate.
With Koreans, I’m still a bit puzzled. KoreaTime goes beyond this and sometimes just stops altogether - leaving me tapping my foot for an hour - waiting. Cellphones are plentiful, so just give me a call already 누나!
For Americans at least, we like to to think of keeping our appointments and being punctual as being considerate of other people’s time, if for no other reason than the golden rule. When I am stood up, I get the impression that my friend thinks his/her time is more valuable than mine, even though that is not their intention. Although, I must also realize that Americans almost by definition are a little (if not very) egocentric and can have some trouble thinking about others before themselves.
It’s funny because this is the most troubling thing that I deal with. This. I have more stress related to punctuality with my Korean friends than any other aspect. Not the language barrier, now who’s going to foot the bill, not the any other obstacle. It drives me up the wall. 진짜!
Historically, when you look at Korean international business, not only foreigners that expect to be successful have to establish deep personal relationships with chaebol (재벌) figureheads, but these foreign businesspeople must also expect that the written contract is worth about as much as the paper that the contract is printed on. Why? Because in this context, Koreans value the verbal agreement over what some little sheet of tree pulp says. And yet it comes to great surprise to Westerners when contract signing day comes that Koreans are still trying to negotiate despite an already notarized contract laying in front of them. It fascinates me that this tradition still exists (to an increasingly less degree) given Korea’s influential economic power.
I have now come to possess two different standards. First, I have my normal standard that firmly states that I and others around me should always 1) keep their appointments and 2) show up on time (which for many is 10 minutes earlier than time stated). Second, my other standard is lax and in constant flux. “Maybe we’ll go to 노래방 tonight and maybe we won’t. Oh well”
In any case, it’s just one of those cultural differences that helps to further differentiate our two cultures. Maybe I’m a little too uptight about time, but that’s just how I was raised! Maybe my Korean friend is a little too relaxed about time, but that’s just how he was raised!
Thoughts?
Posted by Matthew in How Koreans Do It |
June 13th, 2008 at 12:54 am
That’s mild compared to the Arabic time of about +2 or +3 (sometimes more) past the set time. My husband is from Algeria, and he’s an architect in France. When he wants construction workers (who are invariably Arab) to show up somewhere at 6 am, it’s not uncommon to see them lazily stroll in at 10:30. He has sometimes had to crack down hard - shutting down construction sites, revoking zone permits and firing the whole lot of them at one time from that project. That straightens them out for a while…then they fall back into the same habits.
I tend to be punctual like you when it comes to meeting times, but I find it’s easier to be flexible if the late person calls me with a reasonable excuse, and doesn’t do that repeatedly.
What would happen if you make an appointment with a friend, and then *you* show up very late with no good excuse? Would they be upset?
June 13th, 2008 at 4:42 am
Actually, I once totally forgot an appointment with a friend and he didn’t even call until the next day…so no, I guess my friends wouldn’t be too mad if I were 30 minutes late.
June 13th, 2008 at 7:51 am
30min is ok but 2 or 3 hours in Algeria? I would be bald from pulling off my hair. Appointment-induced trichotillomania. Filipino time is 30 min. late but we always have excuses, always! Traffic, alarm clock malfunction, etc. Why do some people say ’sharp?’ for example the meeting is at 9:00 sharp! That’s funny to me ‘coz it sounds like a threat, heheh.
June 13th, 2008 at 10:48 am
before i moved to the south, i would have said that americans are punctual. now i would say that americans in the north are punctual. perhaps it is just a nashville thing (or just the people i am generally with) but times are never really set. if a party is at 8, nobody even shows up until 9 or 10. if church is supposed to start at 7, we’re doing good if we’ve started by 7:15. if my friends and i make plans, it’s “let’s meet at 8-ish.” but we never tend to make any formal plans in advance. it’s more like “hey, people are hanging out here about this time..” and people just show up, but never at the same time. i used to be super adamant about punctuality, but now i find myself a few minutes late to almost everything! i don’t like this about me. even at work - it is no problem to show up 10 or 15 minutes late to work most of the time (but growing up in the north, even two minutes late was bad).
all of that to say, i’ve never noticed anything different between my korean friends and my american friends when it comes to punctuality.
June 14th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
I fit right in with any group of people that doesn’t necessarily stick to a schedule. I’ve been known to do my fair share of driving others crazy by showing up late, so I welcome an opportunity to relax and go with the flow.
What I can’t stand though is indecisivenes over a direction to go, and in these cases I will sometimes just take over and dictate where we’re going to eat or whatever because somebody just needs to take a stand.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Well, you’ve hit on a lot of points, there… I have a lot of opinions about the “verbal vs. written contract” issue, but since that’s not really the main issue of this post, I’ll let it go for now.
I think you’ve basically identified the key issue when it comes to punctuality: namely, that we’re at a point where culture and technology are crossing. In the past, if someone was 30 minutes late and he/she had an excuse that, say, he/she had to help a friend in need, then I might be forgiving.
But nowadays, and especially in Korea, cellphones are very common (even eight-year-old kids have them!). So, it’s completely unacceptable for someone to be more than 10-15 minutes late without calling/texting to explain/apologize for the lateness– and even more unacceptable to stand someone up completely.
As far as I’m concerned, cellphone ubiquity has become a part of contemporary Korean culture, and it ought to (and does) have an effect on culture. What degree of lateness is acceptable is up to the individual, but with cellphones, unexplained lateness or non-punctuality is not acceptable these days at all.
November 28th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
As a private English tutor for many Koreans, I am appalled at the punctuality and reliability of my adult students. Many times they are late, or just do not turn up for their scheduled class. It is when they do not call to let me know they will be late or they will not be attending their class that I really feel irked and any material I have prepared is wasted. I have become to realise that this inherent Korean behaviour is terribly impolite, and extremely inconsiderate.
November 29th, 2010 at 10:32 am
Hello James,
They don’t say “sorry” to you sincerely.
May I say “sorry” to you on the behalf of them?
I really do feel “sorry” for their action and behavior.
What you wrote above, I agree with you 100%.
James…. just you know this. We(Korean people) were not like that before…
They have been changed…. being changed a lot!
They carried values/manners/morals within themselves in the past, but… these days, it’s all about “money/fame/”. I think the phenomenon has been spreading throughout the world. James, sorry that they have been giving you hard time.
I hope that you will have many manner-ful students in your private class.
James… complaining does not solve any problem…. i think it’s time to rethink about your lessons / your style of teaching things… As a teacher, it’s your job to create fun, enthusiastic, cooperative learning environment to your students.
Think about this - when you watch a good movie (very good movie), you pay attention to the movie. The same thing can happen to your lesson. Good movies contain so many aspects - fun, emotional, heart-touching, entertaining, good theme, worth to watch, good direction, good acting, and many more…
Make your lesson like a good movie then, they automatically respect you and your lessons. They are more willing to give their time / invest their time in your lesson(s) with you. It’s UP TO you!
I do agree with you 100%. But you can change things around. It will start from you. You can change yourself, you can change your lessons, you can change the environment of your class, you will be able to change THEM in the end!
This is just my opinion,
cheers James,
Tim
December 10th, 2010 at 3:49 am
Thank you for your response and comments Tim. You are quite correct when you say that the classes have to be fun and enjoyable for those participating and this is what I have tried to achieve. I don’t advertise my classes and simply rely on ‘word of mouth’ from satisfied students. Over the (17) years, I have (proudly) built up a good reputation as a tutor within the Australian Korean community. After becoming comfortable with me my students often want to discuss their personal problems. I find this a flattering sign of trust in me.
My classes are not only for learning English language, but also learning and understanding the culture of Australia and I make myself available 24/7 to all my students should they need assistance in any circumstances
At the commencement of their classes, I always impress on my students the essential Australian cultural practice of punctuality and reliability. Unfortunately, a small number of my students do not heed this advice and this is where my frustration occurs.
Tim, I am very proud of my Korean friends and many of my former students have become life-long friends.
December 10th, 2010 at 10:31 am
Hello James,
Thanks for your response too!
James, although I don’t know you well, I can feel that you are a great teacher and helper who is very compassionate for students. For that, I do respect you.
“Thanks for helping them learn and understand the culture of Australia (English)”.
James, my job is very similar with yours. So, I do know what you have been feeling and what you are trying to say here… (not 100% but 80% maybe…^^???)
James… there are people… among them, there are tons of types of people.
Those who are “a small number of my students do not heed this advice and this is where my frustration occurs” just one group. On the other hand, there are those who are “I am very proud of my Korean friends and many of my former students have become life-long friends”.
And here I am to open my eyes and ears to your comment.
James, whenever you feel got tired or frustrated (for any reason), talk to me…
If you see Korean people make some awful mistakes / behaviors, I am really sorry. I have to say to you because they (Korean people) are my people.
James, it’s very nice talking to you.
James, you have been doing great! When I feel tired or got frustrated, can I leave you a message, so that we can discuss it?
I feel like I just got a new friend named “James”.
cheers, 제임스 힘내요~~
감사합니다, -Tim
ps. “Merry Christmas~~!!!”
January 9th, 2011 at 5:50 am
Dear Tim. Thank you for your response and understanding. In spite of my criticisms, I am so proud of my involvement, reputation, and interaction with the Korean community. I have learnt much from my students and particularly about preparing Korean food to which I have now become addicted. My female students are so caring and generous and often bring me some of their home cooking.
I would like the opportunity to communicate with you and discuss any issues that we both may have. My email address is yogie8@bigpond.com or hodolee36@hotmail.com.
Please feel free to contact me anytime Tim.
Regards………..James